Comments on: Maybe Montreal Doesn’t Need MLS http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/ It's always football season somewhere. Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:41:56 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Don’t Tread on Us, FIFA | socalspaces http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-110177 Don’t Tread on Us, FIFA | socalspaces Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:31:40 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-110177 [...] in the conversation that followed this post, however, is the real answer. The default policy of MLS is isolationism. Isolationism is a foreign [...] [...] in the conversation that followed this post, however, is the real answer. The default policy of MLS is isolationism. Isolationism is a foreign [...]

]]> By: a different Dave http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-107012 a different Dave Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:21:16 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-107012 "But the conjecture that MLS gives a darn about anything other than the MLS championship just doesn’t float with me. It’s Americanized." If that were really true MLS wouldn't bother to compete in the US Open Cup and the CONCACAF Champions League, and Superliga would not exist at all. Obviously a majority of MLS owners DO care about things besides the MLS championship. What Don Garber says isn't the final word on much of anything at all. Garber runs the day to day operations of MLS; he doesn't set long term policy. Once you've spent three decades following American soccer like I have, you'll learn to take the long view and not get bent out of shape over minor tiffs like this. MLS has changed drastically over the years and has proven they can learn from their mistakes. I look on these recent MLS setbacks in international competition as part of the learning process. “But the conjecture that MLS gives a darn about anything other than the MLS championship just doesn’t float with me. It’s Americanized.”

If that were really true MLS wouldn’t bother to compete in the US Open Cup and the CONCACAF Champions League, and Superliga would not exist at all.

Obviously a majority of MLS owners DO care about things besides the MLS championship. What Don Garber says isn’t the final word on much of anything at all. Garber runs the day to day operations of MLS; he doesn’t set long term policy.

Once you’ve spent three decades following American soccer like I have, you’ll learn to take the long view and not get bent out of shape over minor tiffs like this. MLS has changed drastically over the years and has proven they can learn from their mistakes. I look on these recent MLS setbacks in international competition as part of the learning process.

]]> By: Rey http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106777 Rey Sun, 05 Oct 2008 01:55:46 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106777 I don't see how USL stands a chance with the smaller markets they play in. My hometown of Rochester, NY has squandered money on a new stadium in the worst area of the city only to see it turn into a high school football venue. Nobody attends Rhinos games anymore. I'm an admitted novice when it comes to soccer, especially the business side of it. But the conjecture that MLS gives a darn about anything other than the MLS championship just doesn't float with me. It's Americanized. I don’t see how USL stands a chance with the smaller markets they play in. My hometown of Rochester, NY has squandered money on a new stadium in the worst area of the city only to see it turn into a high school football venue. Nobody attends Rhinos games anymore.

I’m an admitted novice when it comes to soccer, especially the business side of it. But the conjecture that MLS gives a darn about anything other than the MLS championship just doesn’t float with me. It’s Americanized.

]]> By: Rob http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106335 Rob Thu, 02 Oct 2008 16:10:23 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106335 MLS' policies almost insure they won't be competative with the rest of the world. Many of the top players in USL are here because they did not want to be "owned" by MSL which severly restricts player movement to other leagues and countries. Also the fact that MLS instituted it's cap on players making over one million dollars may insure league survival, but limits the worldwide marketing capability and competativeness which comes with international superstars such as Beckham. It's no fluke that high priced investors in the US are now buying EPL teams such as Aston Villa and stocking them with American talent. I think Nike may want to use USL as a proving ground for less restrictive league policies and may eventually surpass MLS as the premier soccer league in the US. Along those lines, wouldn't a system of promotion and relegation be nice in the United States? MLS’ policies almost insure they won’t be competative with the rest of the world. Many of the top players in USL are here because they did not want to be “owned” by MSL which severly restricts player movement to other leagues and countries. Also the fact that MLS instituted it’s cap on players making over one million dollars may insure league survival, but limits the worldwide marketing capability and competativeness which comes with international superstars such as Beckham. It’s no fluke that high priced investors in the US are now buying EPL teams such as Aston Villa and stocking them with American talent. I think Nike may want to use USL as a proving ground for less restrictive league policies and may eventually surpass MLS as the premier soccer league in the US. Along those lines, wouldn’t a system of promotion and relegation be nice in the United States?

]]> By: Dave http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106301 Dave Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:49:42 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106301 A note about the comments: Hyperlinking is automatic. If the comments section detects more than one URL, however, the comment gets dropped into moderation. This has been highly effective in keeping spam out of the comments here. And now for the follow-up... In the comments at the BigSoccer post, Bill Archer wrote something interesting: <i>The "business model" is that league games, the ones that, you know, people buy season tickets and signboards and sponsor "free annoying clappers day" for, matter. Everything else - not so much.</i> Basically, MLS is specifically designed in a way that <i>prevents</i> clubs from caring about the U.S. Open Cup, the CONCACAF Champions League, and FIFA international breaks. Only winning MLS Cup matters; everything else is irrelevant. That's a very American attitude toward a sporting league. Perhaps this model does keep MLS in business, but it's always going to make the rest of the world scoff at them. BTW, Montreal and Puerto Rico both won this week and now top their tables in the Champions League. I'd say USL is definitely making its case for more investment from Nike. A note about the comments: Hyperlinking is automatic. If the comments section detects more than one URL, however, the comment gets dropped into moderation. This has been highly effective in keeping spam out of the comments here.

And now for the follow-up…

In the comments at the BigSoccer post, Bill Archer wrote something interesting:

The “business model” is that league games, the ones that, you know, people buy season tickets and signboards and sponsor “free annoying clappers day” for, matter. Everything else – not so much.

Basically, MLS is specifically designed in a way that prevents clubs from caring about the U.S. Open Cup, the CONCACAF Champions League, and FIFA international breaks. Only winning MLS Cup matters; everything else is irrelevant. That’s a very American attitude toward a sporting league. Perhaps this model does keep MLS in business, but it’s always going to make the rest of the world scoff at them.

BTW, Montreal and Puerto Rico both won this week and now top their tables in the Champions League. I’d say USL is definitely making its case for more investment from Nike.

]]> By: a different Dave http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106252 a different Dave Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:10:02 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106252 (Apparently if I post any hyperlink the post goes immediately into moderation, so let me repost this without the hyperlink:) Yes I’ve been hearing about the Nike connection to USL. If they can get some big investors into USL, things could get interesting, but that hasn’t happened yet. If MLS persists in its stupider policies and/or stops expanding, I could see big money new investors diverted into USL. Hasn’t happened yet, though. Keep in mind my prediction above doesn’t have a “due by date”; it’s what has to happen and should happen, but MLS is stubborn and may take a long time to face facts, exhibit A: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2124 Still if the SSS keep getting built and new owners keep coming into MLS who want to spend more money, I could see my predictions coming true within the next five to ten years. Maybe a bit more. When you’ve been around as long as I have, watching the American soccer scene, you learn to be patient. (Apparently if I post any hyperlink the post goes immediately into moderation, so let me repost this without the hyperlink:)

Yes I’ve been hearing about the Nike connection to USL. If they can get some big investors into USL, things could get interesting, but that hasn’t happened yet. If MLS persists in its stupider policies and/or stops expanding, I could see big money new investors diverted into USL. Hasn’t happened yet, though.

Keep in mind my prediction above doesn’t have a “due by date”; it’s what has to happen and should happen, but MLS is stubborn and may take a long time to face facts, exhibit A:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2124

Still if the SSS keep getting built and new owners keep coming into MLS who want to spend more money, I could see my predictions coming true within the next five to ten years. Maybe a bit more.

When you’ve been around as long as I have, watching the American soccer scene, you learn to be patient.

]]> By: a different Dave http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106251 a different Dave Thu, 02 Oct 2008 07:08:49 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106251 Yes I've been hearing about the Nike connection to USL. If they can get some big investors into USL, things could get interesting, but that hasn't happened yet. If MLS persists in its stupider policies and/or stops expanding, I could see big money new investors diverted into USL. Hasn't happened yet, though. Keep in mind my prediction above doesn't have a "due by date"; it's what has to happen and should happen, but MLS is stubborn and may take a long time to face facts, exhibit A: <a href="http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2124" rel="nofollow">http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2124</a> Still if the SSS keep getting built and new owners keep coming into MLS who want to spend more money, I could see my predictions coming true within the next five to ten years. Maybe a bit more. When you've been around as long as I have, watching the American soccer scene, you learn to be patient. Yes I’ve been hearing about the Nike connection to USL. If they can get some big investors into USL, things could get interesting, but that hasn’t happened yet. If MLS persists in its stupider policies and/or stops expanding, I could see big money new investors diverted into USL. Hasn’t happened yet, though.

Keep in mind my prediction above doesn’t have a “due by date”; it’s what has to happen and should happen, but MLS is stubborn and may take a long time to face facts, exhibit A:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=2124

Still if the SSS keep getting built and new owners keep coming into MLS who want to spend more money, I could see my predictions coming true within the next five to ten years. Maybe a bit more.

When you’ve been around as long as I have, watching the American soccer scene, you learn to be patient.

]]> By: joejoejoe http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106248 joejoejoe Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:36:03 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106248 I'm on the USL mailing list and they just had a blurb about a big shot from Nike being added to their board of directors. Nike owns Umbro which owns the USL. I get the feeling that Nike is getting it's ducks in a row and is poised to start really pumping up the USL and beating MLS straight up as a league. I’m on the USL mailing list and they just had a blurb about a big shot from Nike being added to their board of directors. Nike owns Umbro which owns the USL. I get the feeling that Nike is getting it’s ducks in a row and is poised to start really pumping up the USL and beating MLS straight up as a league.

]]> By: a different Dave http://www.davesfootballblog.com/post/2008/10/01/maybe-montreal-doesnt-need-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-106175 a different Dave Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:56:44 +0000 http://www.davesfootballblog.com/?p=4340#comment-106175 Montreal Impact are a non-profit club financed by one of the richest families in Quebec. They don't NEED to be in MLS. However, MLS is a lot more stable than USL is. Long term, that's important. MLS has evolved, and will continue to evolve. The Single Entity scheme will be tweaked beyond all recognition. International competition will force MLS to follow the FIFA calender, and eventually adopt a split schedule (with winter and summer breaks); once everyone has their own SSS they'll play even in cold weather. Soccer fans will have to learn to toughen up just like they do in Europe. The CBA will increase salaries and the squads will get bigger and deeper as the salary cap is increased and the minimum pay for development players is increased. MLS central office will be forced to mind its own business and not be allowed to prevent transfers; MLS will sign the paychecks but the MLS clubs will make all the actual decisions about player transfers. This will happen because this is no longer AEG and HSG's private league anymore. Newer, richer owners will demand these changes. As for a rich owner buying into USL and pouring in money to win US Open Cup and CONCACAF Champions League, sure, this could happen, but IMO it would be part of a bid to get into MLS, not to stay in a financially shaky and unstable USL. Keep your eye on the owners of the new USL Tampa Bay Rowdies; there has been plenty of speculation about how much money they really have and how much money they plan to spend. It could be an indication of what the next wave of USL owners will be like. However, note the recent talk of FC Barcelona wanting an MLS franchise in Miami. The really deep pockets are still going to MLS first, not USL. Financial stability and continuity of franchises counts for a lot when evaluating which is the stronger league long term - not momentary successes in the CONCACAF Champions League. Montreal Impact are a non-profit club financed by one of the richest families in Quebec. They don’t NEED to be in MLS. However, MLS is a lot more stable than USL is. Long term, that’s important.

MLS has evolved, and will continue to evolve. The Single Entity scheme will be tweaked beyond all recognition. International competition will force MLS to follow the FIFA calender, and eventually adopt a split schedule (with winter and summer breaks); once everyone has their own SSS they’ll play even in cold weather. Soccer fans will have to learn to toughen up just like they do in Europe. The CBA will increase salaries and the squads will get bigger and deeper as the salary cap is increased and the minimum pay for development players is increased. MLS central office will be forced to mind its own business and not be allowed to prevent transfers; MLS will sign the paychecks but the MLS clubs will make all the actual decisions about player transfers. This will happen because this is no longer AEG and HSG’s private league anymore. Newer, richer owners will demand these changes.

As for a rich owner buying into USL and pouring in money to win US Open Cup and CONCACAF Champions League, sure, this could happen, but IMO it would be part of a bid to get into MLS, not to stay in a financially shaky and unstable USL. Keep your eye on the owners of the new USL Tampa Bay Rowdies; there has been plenty of speculation about how much money they really have and how much money they plan to spend. It could be an indication of what the next wave of USL owners will be like.

However, note the recent talk of FC Barcelona wanting an MLS franchise in Miami. The really deep pockets are still going to MLS first, not USL. Financial stability and continuity of franchises counts for a lot when evaluating which is the stronger league long term – not momentary successes in the CONCACAF Champions League.

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